Grandpa - Fwd: Prophets

Dear Caleb,

Thanks for including me on the question of prophets.  I just read your Dad's responses and they are great.  I love seeing you so deeply involved in the work.  I'm sure that the investigators feel the power of your spirit and testimony.

This morning your Dad talked about the dispensation heads.  It is fun to go to the Book of Genesis and also Moses and read of the great patriarchs from Adam to Noah.  I will attach a timeline showing their births, life span and deaths.  It is very revealing.  For example, the great prophet Enoch was on the earth preaching and prophesying for 300 years while Adam was still alive.  And many others from Seth through Enoch were also alive and all were patriarchs and prophets—at the same time.  The Bible isn't clear on that because it just isn't a complete record.  For example. when you get to Abraham in Genesis Chapter 12 you have covered 2000 years of history and there is only 17 pages of recorded history.  But there is enough there if you couple the Genesis account with the Moses account in the Pearl of Great Price to know that all of the early patriarchs were "preachers of righteousness and spake and prophesied"…(Moses 6:23)  But during all of the first 930 years, while all of them held the keys, Adam still held the keys as the one prophet who stood at the head.  You can see that from Doctrine and Covenants 107:53-57. It is also important to note that God's work on the earth in those early days were conducted in and through a patriarchal or family order.  There weren't billions of people on the earth and there weren't millions of members in the Lord's church.  So God revealed himself to the patriarchs, who were prophets) and led his church through that organization with Adam at the head.  We essentially started over with Noah when only eight persons were saved from the great flood.  Ten generations of patriarchs later Abraham is born and Noah is still alive.  But the population of the faithful really began to grow from Abraham and his grandson Jacob was given the name of Israel and from him came the house of Israel.  Again the bible is sketchy as far as giving a complete history.  But there are instances when we can see that there were more than one prophet on earth at a time.  Through careful study we have found that Isaiah, Amos, Micah, Hosea and Zechariah were all contemporaries.  Meaning that they prophesied to the house of Israel and Judah at the same time.  Jeremiah, Zephaniah and Habakkuk also were contemporaries and Lehi was among this group.  Elisha, Elijah and Obadiah were contemporaries.  Now there isn't enough history available to give us the full picture of the organization and there certainly wasn't the opportunity for the Old Testament prophets to be in constant communication with each other as there is in the modern world.  So some things necessarily were different as the Lord adapted His work to the circumstances of the times.  But there is enough said for us to know that there were multiple people at a time who were prophets to the people and because God is the same yesterday, today and forever, we know that there would always be one of those living who acted at the  president of the quorum of prophets who held all of the keys as the Lord directs.  One of the indications that we have an incomplete record (besides the fact that it is so evident that 4000 years of history would be covered in the relatively small number of pages in the Old Testament) is recorded in 1 Chronicles 29:29 where it says, speaking of the acts of David, the king, that they were written  in the Books of Samuel, the seer, Nathan, the prophet, and Gad the seer.  We  don't have available in any ancient libraries or anywhere, the books of Nathan or Gad,  and yet, there is direct evidence that they were prophets and wrote books of their teachings and ministry.  Nathan is mentioned in 2 Samuel, but we don't have mention of Gad as a historical person in the Old Testament.

Maybe one other thing about distances and world wide communication in former times.  As is easy to understand, there was no way to communicate between the eastern hemisphere (Jerusalem, etc.) and the western hemisphere (the americas) in former times.  So we had prophets in both places.  The important principle is still summarized in Amos 3:7.  "Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."

The New Testament isn't totally complete either, but there is enough truth and history there to let us see that Christ organized His church with apostles and prophets.  You have quoted Ephesians 4:11-14.  Also see  Ephesians 2:19-21.  If we understand God's organization, we know that there was a reason for Christ to take Peter, James and John with him to the Mount of Transfiguration and not bring the others of the twelve with Him.  He also took those same three into the Garden of Gethsemane beyond where he invited the rest of the Twelve.  These are strong indications that Christ saw the position of those three differently than the rest of the twelve and we are assured that they were to be the First Presidency after Christ left them.  Does that mean that there were only 8 apostles in the quorum after He left and Judas was no longer in the quorum.  Again the record is not complete but we do know that Matthias became an apostle in Judas' place and the Paul and Barnabas were apostles and that James, the Lord's brother was as well, and they because apostles during the time of the early church and their service as apostles is recorded in the Book of Acts.

So summarizing, you really didn't contradict yourself by telling the sister that Lehi and Jeremiah were prophets in Jerusalem at the same time.  Jeremiah  could have been the Presiding officer—the President—we don't know for sure because there were also others.  And you were right by telling here that we only have one prophet on earth today who directs the work of the Lord and holds all the keys to do so.  Just help her see that there are fourteen others who also hold all the keys except the one key of being the president who can turn the key for all of the others.  And the one great over riding truth that you both seemed to agree on is that God is the same yesterday, today and forever.  While needs and circumstances may dictate some administrative adjustments, the principle of God speaking to prophets and revealing his secrets to them is eternal.  Joseph Smith said it this way: "The principle upon which the kingdom of Heaven is conducted, is revelation, adapted to the circumstances in which the  children of the kingdom are placed."  Always continuing revelation—always.  Always God directing His wonk of earth through His prophets, the same yesterday, today and forever.

Well, this coupled with  what your Dad said should help.  If you would ever like anything else and I can help, please ask.  We sure love you and are so proud of the great man and great missionary you are becoming.  Have a great week.

Love,

Grandpa

On Jan 7, 2016, at 7:12 AM, Paul Gibbons <gibbons.paul@gmail.com> wrote:

Here's something else I left out last night.  God has always called a single prophet to lead a dispensation of time.  This is true throughout the recorded scriptural age of man.

Adam led the first dispensation

Other dispensation leaders

Enoch

Noah

Abraham

Moses

Christ

Joseph Smith

These prophets were called by God to be the spiritual leaders to which those in their dispensation would look.

Joseph Smith was called to restore all things in this the final "dispensation of the the fullness of times".

Go to the Bible Dictionary and look up "dispensations"

Anyway - I'm trying to think of how you can best explain this first to yourself and then to an investigator.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 7:41 AM, Caleb Gibbons <cgibbons@myldsmail.net> wrote:

I got asked a question yesterday and I don't know how to answer it. I
told an investigator that Lehi was called as a prophet around the same
time as Jeremiah. She said "so there was two prophets on the earth?"
And the lesson before we told her that we only have one prophet at a
time on the earth. So I kind of contradicted myself. She then said "if
God is the same yesterday, today and forever, then why doesn't he call
two prophets of the church today? Where does it say in the bible that
he called two prophets at a time?"

I've been studying it for awhile and can't find anything except
Ephesians 4:11-13
"And he gave some, bapostles; and some, prophets; and some,
evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;"
"... For the edifying of the body of Christ."
"Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of
the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of
the fulness of Christ:"

But that's talking about past prophets.. So maybe just be thinking
about this one so I can give her something next time we meet?

Thanks for your help.
- Elder Caleb Gibbons